It was the blog post heard ‘round the world. When Charles Johnson wrote Why I Parted Ways With The Right in the space of a few minutes and posted it on his popular Little Green Footballs blog, he had no idea the firestorm it would set off. Nasty denunciations, death threats and a New York Times magazine feature article later, Charles Johnson joined me for a discussion of the right wing flame war directed at him, the Darwin-hating, know-nothing Creationists and the frenzied insanity (and racism) of the anti-Obama right. Part one is here. In case you are wondering if some of the comments are being removed, they are. Some of them go too far. We didn’t pull them because Charles asked us to. We’ve removed them because they don’t belong here, okay?
 

Continuing discussion from the first thread:

http://www.dangerousminds.net/index.php/site/comments/charles_johnson_why_i_parted_ways_with_the_right/

Flying Scotsman says:

“Charles Johnson clearly does not approve of comments like those regarding Corrie and deletes them whenever they are reported.”

This is true as of now. But the first time it happened was a day ago. Before that Charles was hunky-dory with that term for years, as has been shown already.

Obdicut:

“Yes, Charles is saying that St. Pancake started at LGF.  That does not contradict his statement that he didn’t like it.

He hasn’t claimed the term didn’t originate on LGF, so I’m really unsure how pointing out that it did is an attack on him.  He’s changed his moderation style since then.”

Please, this will get you some points with Charles, but it won’t fly here. This is not a matter of the origin of the term (although that is not unimportant in itself, as it shows what sewer LGF was). Regardless of whether he was or was not personally “fond of” the term, Charles was not only completely tolerant of it (as is evident from its inclusion in the official LGF dictionary, where the bit about Charles not being fond of it appeared only in recent times; he even tolerated (maybe still does) a user with a nickname “St.Pancake” - see http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/24956_Germans_Scared_of_Us ), he readily used it for entertainment purposes, as shown by this posting:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19533_The_Rachel_Corrie_Pancake_Breakfast

“The Rachel Corrie Pancake Breakfast

Sun, Mar 5, 2006 at 8:58:34 pm PST

Truly, reality has come full circle, as Indymedia unwittingly imitates Little Green Footballs: Rachel Corrie Pancake Breakfast. (Hat tip: IDF Dave.)

No, it’s not a joke.”

What could be the purpose of the posting if not to have some fun (on the bones of the dead girl) and to throw some red meat to the Lizards? Sorry. But this is so obvious that weak excuses make apologists look ridiculous.

I “get” where you come from - let bygones be bygones, all that pragmatic stuff. But rewriting history is not OK. Charles should have said his “mea culpa” and that would be worthy of much respect. After all Markos Moulitsas apologized for his “screw them” comment, why is Johnson above that? But all he does is blame his vile commenters, many of whom he earlier called “LGF operatives” (Zombie, Iron Fist) and fully endorsed, despite them spewing their toxic stuff for years.

Why dwell on the past? Well… Doesn’t Charles do the same thing with say RSM? Doesn’t he find all those ~10 y.o. quotes and associations and use them against that freak? And it is an absolutely legitimate critique, especially considering RSM’s non-responses and evasions.

The same is true for Charles Johnson. It’s time for him to own up to his share of blame for all the bigotry that his blog radiated for all these years with him either turning the blind eye or approving it or even promoting it himself.

After that we can leave the past in the past.

Charles maybe you can unravel this mystery for me. Last night you wrote “don’t call me a conservative any more” but in the interview above you say “I was reluctant to be put in this right-wing bag because I’ve never been a right-winger in my whole life…and my musician friends were shocked to see me called a conservative because they know who I am and it’s not that.”.

FriedLizard says:

This is true as of now. But the first time it happened was a day ago. Before that Charles was hunky-dory with that term for years, as has been shown already

Bullshit. What has been shown already is that Charles was never okay with that nickname, people kept using it despite repeated requests that they not do so, and zombie even edited the lgf dictionary when reposting it to give the false impression that Charles endorsed that nickname.

Fried lizard.. Dude, get a life.  How many hours did it take you to write all of that invective?  It doesn’t even matter debating if your ranting is true or not, just look at yourself in the mirror man - and get a life.

Thank you very much for performing this interview with Charles Johnson. It’s nice to see that the microphone is sometimes given to the voice of rationality and logic rather than to the frothing fear mongerers. Nice job.

RFM, you simply reiterated the claim. You haven’t provided any arguments.

Moreover, you spiced up your comments with outright lies.

You write:

“people kept using it despite repeated requests that they not do so”

But you don’t show a single instance of such. It is simply not true.

You write:

“and zombie even edited the lgf dictionary when reposting it to give the false impression that Charles endorsed that nickname.”

Except Zombie was the original dictionary editor, the version on his site is the original version, and I provided the link of this same dictionary in 2005 ( http://web.archive.org/web/20050205034424/http://www.zombietime.com/lgf_dictionary/ ). So that bit was a later insertion. I.e. you lie about Zombie falsifying the diary.

So you lied twice.

It has been shown that Charles was absolutely OK with the usage of this term for many years.

1. He accepted its inclusion in the LGF dictionary.

2. He used it for entertainment purposes, to have some fun on the corpse of the dead girl ( http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19533_The_Rachel_Corrie_Pancake_Breakfast )

3. He tolerated someone nicknamed “St.Pancake” on his blog and even gave a hat tip to it ( http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/24956_Germans_Scared_of_Us ).

So you also lied when you wrote that it “has been shown already is that Charles was never okay with that nickname”. He was OK with this “mean-spirited”, “gutter” term (his words, not mine).

Thanks for a good interview, Mr. Metzger. I’m going to stop replying to the obsessed, because I don’t have the energy to deal with obsession.

The interview is a good, and very fair one.  You’re to be complimented on asking good questions and having a fair attitude.

Ludwig, you simply don’t care about truth and bigotry. Since you don’t care about these things, you’re a bad human being. Since you’re a bad human being, I don’t see why I should pay attention to what you have to say.

Obdicut, you just have no arguments left (yeah, yeah, now say “I expected that”).

It is actually a very easy claim to debunk if it’s not true. That your comrades here (like RFM) stoop to outright lying shows that they’re unable to respond to it calmly and logically. At least you simply gave up instead of stooping to lies, kudos to you.

Sigh.
LGF dictionary entry:

Disparaging nickname for Rachel Corrie, a American activist who voluteered to help Palestinian militants in their attacks on Israel; she was killed after being crushed by a Israeli bulldozer while “defending” Palestinian smuggling tunnels. She was subsequently beatified by the extreme left, and in mockery of her new holy status, LGFers dubbed her “St. Pancake,” in reference to the manner of her death. (Charles himself is reportedly not fond of the nickname.)

FriedLizard: Get some new hobby. Or change your meds. Whatever works.

Daryl, this was my point the other day. But why won’t Charles address this? The name of the piece that caused him this new media coverage doesn’t even make sense given what he said in the interview!

RFM, your point being?

To repeat from the above:

“You write:

“and zombie even edited the lgf dictionary when reposting it to give the false impression that Charles endorsed that nickname.”

Except Zombie was the original dictionary editor, the version on his site is the original version, and I provided the link of this same dictionary in 2005 ( http://web.archive.org/web/20050205034424/http://www.zombietime.com/lgf_dictionary/ ). So that bit was a later insertion. I.e. you lie about Zombie falsifying the diary.”

So, RFM, why did you lie? Care to explain?

How can anybody look at the comments here(and pretty much anywhere) and not reach the conclusion that conservatives are a bunch of lunatics?

What is up with your bizarre obsession with Charles?
I’m afraid for his safety.

Conservatives are a bunch of lunatics. Obsession with Charles? Not really, unless Charles has obsession with Robert Stacy McCain or Glenn Beck.

Get some help. Seriously.

I have a strange, and instructive, banning story. I woke up one day to find my account disabled and <b>I never posted a single comment</b>. I can only surmise that I uses the “ding” system Charles created to down-ding things he holds dear and vice versa. Very strange behavior.

Very good interview - though it was delivered as more of a discussion. Near the end Richard says something to the effect that “people react the same throughout the world” referring to Muslims starting to get turned off by the violence in their part of the world. Charles agreed.

Charles is correct IMO that GW Bush achieved some success in making us safer. But it was not because Arabs are turned off by the increasing violence in their societies. Such a view is farcical. Violence is the only accepted way that power changes hands, is secured and defended in Arab societies.

Bush achieved success because he used extreme violence to reach his goals. This was accepted and understood by Arabs because for them that’s how things are done. Negotiation and dialog, even voting, except when established with deception that assures the outcome, is a certain sign of weakness.

George Bush became a legitimate contender for power in the ME and pulled it off by displaying in Iraq his ability to be more ruthless than any Arab who opposed him, such as Saddam Hussein. Obama seems to have accepted his generals’ advice and is doing something similar in Afghanistan now - although I’m not sure he understands why it’s working.

Suggesting that the Arabs on the street in the ME are starting to see the light and are ready to reject their violent leadership and prefer peaceful solutions with their enemies, like Israel and the US - is wishful thinking of the worst sort by people who have little ability to see past their own Western cognitive egocentrism. Although I consider myself a liberal - it seems that the ideological left in the US is the side most severely afflicted with this extremely dangerous burden.

Kelly says:
“I have a strange, and instructive, banning story. I woke up one day to find my account disabled and I never posted a single comment. I can only surmise that I uses the “ding” system Charles created to down-ding things he holds dear and vice versa. Very strange behavior.”

The stranger behavior is not participating in LGF debate and using your account to down ding people. I would ban you too.(Although, I wouldn’t be surprised if you made that up.) The most strange behavior of all…is that you came to an article about Charles and felt the need to announce this.

Hey, I found something neat.

Rachel Corrie was an “Idiotarian of the year” in 2003, which is bad enough:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/10182_The_Corrie_Tributes_Star

But the worst part is the official Fiskie Award picture posted by Johnson himself and drawn by wingnuts Cox&Forkum;.

Before you look, try to guess what is depicted there…

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/Pictures/CorrieFiskie-X.gif

May I have some mea culpas now?

Try to count all the “pancake” mentions in the comments in this thread:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/10182_The_Corrie_Tributes_Start/comments

Then try to count all the instances in which Charles expresses his disapproval.

What? You can’t find any? Strange. We’ve been so reassured by RFM above…

Now peform the same procedure on these threads:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/9598_The_Envelope_Please/comments
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/19812_Ballad_of_a_Useful_Idiot/comments/

Report your results.

And in this thread we even have a couple of dissenting voices in regard to “St.Pancake” jokes:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/9603_Here_She_Is_Miss_Un-American/comments/

But do we see Charles backing the dissenters?

So let’s recap.

1. Charles let a username “St.Pancake” to be registered. He also hat-tipped that user.

This shows that Charles did not take any issue with the term.

Prooflink: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/24956_Germans_Scared_of_Us

2. Charles posted a just-for-fun comment about “The Rachel Corrie Pancake Breakfast”, calmly stating that this event “unwittingly imitates Little Green Footballs”, without expressing any disapproval.

This shows that Charles accepted the term as an acknowledged part of LGF lore and given lack of his negative reaction, this shows that he accepted the term itself as legitimate. This also shows that Charles made “pure entertainment” postings about “Pancake” Rachel Corrie.

Prooflink: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19533_The_Rachel_Corrie_Pancake_Breakfast

3. Charles allowed the term “St.Pancake” to be entered into the official version of the LGF dictionary. In a later edition of the dictionary he (or someone acting on his behalf) inserted a note that he is not fond of the term. The date of the insertion is not known.

This shows that the term was an accepted part of LGF lore and Charles did not object to it being such.

This does not show that Charles was always against the term - we don’t know the date of the insertion and other examples prove otherwise anyway.

Prooflink: the original version of LGF dictionary, edited by Zombie, as saved by the Web Archive in 2005: http://web.archive.org/web/20050205034424/http://www.zombietime.com/lgf_dictionary/ (also see http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://lgfdictionary.wordpress.com and http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/27067_LGF_Dictionary-_New_Site_Launches )

4. Charles endorsed the vile Cox&Forkum; picture of “flattened” Corrie, the picture made after Corrie was named an “Idiotarian of the year” at LGF in 2003.

This shows that whether Charles himself used the term or not, he endorsed the “pancake” meme as depicted in that vile image, which is actually much worse than a mere nickname.

Prooflink 1: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/Pictures/CorrieFiskie-X.gif (and a backup version: http://web.archive.org/web/20070929104459/http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/Pictures/CorrieFiskie-X.gif )

Prooflink 2: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/9603_Here_She_Is_Miss_Un-American

5. Charles never ever objected to numerous mentions of “St.Pancake” in Corrie-related LGF threads.

This shows that he was not against the term.

Prooflink 1: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/10182_The_Corrie_Tributes_Start/comments
Prooflink 2: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/9598_The_Envelope_Please/comments
Prooflink 3: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/19812_Ballad_of_a_Useful_Idiot/comments/
Prooflink 4: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/9603_Here_She_Is_Miss_Un-American/comments/

(and many others not shown here).

6. Here’s what Charles says about the term now:

“Please note: I have never liked using the name “Saint Pancake” for Rachel Corrie, and I’m going to delete any comments that use it. It’s unnecessarily mean-spirited; you can criticize her sympathy for terrorist groups without diving into the gutter like that.”

Prooflink: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/showc/836/8183531

tl:dr troll

HAY MY NAME IS FRIEDLIZARD I HAVE NOTHING GOING ON IN MY LIFE EXCEPT THE ALL-AMERICAN DUTY TO ALL OF THESE VERY IMPORTANT LINKS ABOUT WHAT A MEANIE MEANY MEAN-HEAD A BLOGGER IS

Gee I don’t know if looking down your nose at Republicans is a realistic appraisal of your own status. Maybe your vanity. But not usefulness.

Wow.

Galactus says:

tl:dr troll

“HAY MY NAME IS FRIEDLIZARD I HAVE NOTHING GOING ON IN MY LIFE EXCEPT THE ALL-AMERICAN DUTY TO ALL OF THESE VERY IMPORTANT LINKS ABOUT WHAT A MEANIE MEANY MEAN-HEAD A BLOGGER IS”

haha! You leave him alone! He’s a patriot and a freedom fighter!

I love the repitious lies that you both continue about the Tea Parties and who attends and what their nature is. I have attended many such functions and you are both wrong. There are blacks, Latinos, young, old, Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, and all are of a like mind—Taxed Enough Already. The crowds are growing and substantial even when not advertised. Your fascist methods of repeating the lies often enough that the libtards will start to believe them are truly Stalinistic. What drugs are you guys on?

I don’t know what Richard indulges in, but I’m high on clean windows, powerful gasoline, and a shoeshine.

@Jim Ramsey

Just high-end marijuana and the occasional muscle relaxer for me.

Booze, I never—well rarely—touch.

Thanks for asking!

Richard

Kelly says:

“I have a strange, and instructive, banning story. I woke up one day to find my account disabled and I never posted a single comment. I can only surmise that I uses the “ding” system Charles created to down-ding things he holds dear and vice versa. Very strange behavior.”

Translayshun:

“Ah didnae contribute ANYHIN tae LGF. Ah jist sneaked aboot doondingin reasonable posts - an ah goat banned! Jist fur that! Oh the injustiss o’ it aw… Ah’ll be aw butthurt up tae fuck aboot it this fur years, so ah will. Greet…whimper…stalk!”

Oh, for crying out loud! 

In a nutshell, Charles allowed the so-called “right wing” to support him (hell, he constantly solicited money from them) for years.  Once Obama was elected, he went back on everything he claimed to believe in the hopes that the so-called “left wing” would be his new sugar daddy.

Here’s the deal, Chuck:  Both the right and the left despise you.  You’re about as popular as Arlen Specter on both sides of the aisle.

So, how many of the whiners here even bothered to watch the interview?

The left coast lunatic and his brand of angry flunkies are back and this time abortion is the topic. Go from pro life to pro choice and you’re enlightened. Go the other way and you’ve devolved. No other way to see it. Charles, how do you manage to type with both index fingers so firmly embedded in their respective ear canals?

Charles Johnson suffered a mental breakdown after his wife left him. Never having gone to therapy, he continues to be a man who walks a fine line on sanity. Occasionally, he slips over to the paranoid-delusional side where he thinks anyone who disagrees with him is “out to get him.”

Mr. Johnson, if he would seek help, would likely be classified as a paranoid-delusional personality who also has a narcissistic personality disorder.

His personal relationships fail, he is not liked by many people outside of his carefully monitored online compatriots who he can casually toss to the curb when they fail to follow him as a cult leader more than some kind of friend.

As a professional, I would guess that his derangement will grow over time. He seeks attention now and he is getting it in videos like this but when the attention dies off Mr. Johnson will do crazier things to get attention.

Once he is ignored, he will probably kill himself by over-eating food. Gaining weight rapidly will lead to health issues and his eventual death.

He already shows signs of such clinical depression.

Hey Marla, where did you get your internet degree in psychology? The Psychic Network?

Richard, I follow your blog, and I follow Little Green Footballs as well.  This is a fine convergence. 

That being said, I find it amusing that you view mystical xtians and conspiracy theorists as a threat, given you have been pimping ‘magick’ and conspiracy trash for years.

This reassures me that you haven’t been all that serious.  More of a profit thing, I see.

Marla,

That is low beyond compare.

The idea of smearing his name by attacking his relationships and then cloaking it in some twisted attempt to sound concerned is repugnant.  How dare you?  How can you look in the mirror knowing you are that sick?

Not that it matters, because you really have no right to go there nor does anyone, but Mr. Johnson is not clinically depressed over his relationships and I have heard that he is actually engaged to be married to a wonderful woman.

As a professional, I would guess that Marla’s derangement will grow over time. She seeks attention now and she is getting it with comments like these but when the attention dies off Marla will do crazier things to get attention.

Marla, go back to troll school. Grade: Fail.

LudwigvanQuixote, Charles is actually going to marry his blow-up doll? Has that been legalized in California?

I couldn’t imagine a real woman who could put up with Charles Johnson’s insane ramblings. It would be result in conversations like this:

Johnson’s Skank: Could you please pick up a gallon of Milk?

Chuckles “The Assclown” Johnson: I can’t go to Whole foods because there are neo-nazi right wingnuts out to get me.

Johnson’s Skank: Could you do anything that will require you getting out of your basement?

Chuckles “The Assclown” Johnson: Not unless there is an interview to promote my website.

Johnson’s Skank: I want a divorce.

Chuckles “The Assclown” Johnson: Fine. I love Rasberry Zingers and Twinkies more than you anyway.

***

The shilling for Johnson on this thread is laughable at best. The guy is a first class dickhead as evidenced by comments made by women who know him in real life. I do not dispute these women, but I’ll dispute anything out of the mouth of a LGF cult member any day.

dear Charles is still mentioning these forums in every post hoping someone will come to his defense.

maybe Mandy Manners will be next, though I wouldn’t waste the shoe polish to kick her in the cun. 

when will Charles defend his positions himself?

That’s true, at LGF I’m mentioning the insane ranting going on in here, because it’s an absolutely perfect demonstration of the sickness on the right—you know, the subject of this interview?

Please, carry on. It’s actually pretty amusing to see how bugfuck nuts you people are.

Racer X says:

The guy is a first class dickhead as evidenced by comments made by women who know him in real life.

LOL. It’s on the interwebs, it must be true!

Jesus Christ you’re a dumb fuck. It’s fun to watch you and the other stalkers shitting yourselves in desperation. How many hours a day do you spend seeking out every website that mentions LGF and spamming it with comments assuring yourself that Charles is so very, very irrelevant?

Seek help.

Let me get this straight - these obsessive,foaming and utterly dishonest wingnut posts are supposed in some way to refute the charge that CJ’s enemies are a bunch of obsessive, foaming and utterly obsessive wingnuts. Okay…

PIMF

“obsessive, foaming and utterly dishonest wingnuts.”

Outrageous Outrage of the Week ( Religious scary white people may not apply.)

Charles Johnson attacks a young girl because her father took her older brother to Canada for treatment after the young man burned his leg playing with fire. The wing-nuts are now claiming that her family illegally crossed the border so that her brother can receive free socialized healthcare when in fact her family paid the full cost of medical expenses and Canada didn’t have single payer healthcare in Whitehorse.

http://www.esquire.com/the-side/opinion/sarah-palin-canadian-health-care-031010

Flying Scotsman: It is my job to suck Charles Johnson’s tiny cock, not yours. Your help is not needed here. It is all under control.

All haters can deal with me. LGF is the best website on the internet and anyone who says Charles Johnson is paranoid doesn’t know the guy like I do.

Charles Johnson, I’m sorry you had to see all these vile comments from these wingnuts.

Bugfuck nuts.  Nice.  Classy.  This from a guy who says he was never on the Right but wrote a post called Why I Parted Ways With The Right.  Keep it up.  I can’t get enough of your cognitive dissonance.

The big man himself is claiming to know the people who are posting things about him. How?  Why he was voted by the brilliant readers of the Huffington Post to be the blogger most like Kreskin. (In a previous poll he was also voted most likely reference Wikipedia articles as fact.)

LGF. What is there to say? It used to be a decent blog, but now it plays one tune over and over again, ad nauseum. Creationism. Creationism. Creationism. It’s an interesting subject of debate, but the truth is no one left at LGF is schooled in any of the classical arguments centering around the centuries long discourse over intelligent design and evolution. And the biggest offender when it comes to this ignorance is Mr. Johnson himself. He is prosaic, logically-challenged, and his viewpoints are about as deep as a mud puddle after a spring shower. To visit this blog one gets the sense of walking through a high school cafeteria, where the gawkers and the hawkers sit around and tell poop jokes or make fart noises with their arm pits. This is the level of intellectual discourse at LGF. Johnson is devoid of critical thought, and has about as much wit as a slab of cold cuts. As for the relevancy of this blog is concerned, I’d say I’d rather watch Oprah or read a comic book. At least if one must have some vapid entertainment it shouldn’t be pretending to be masquerading as lofty or principled. LGF just sucks, and so does Mr. Johnson. Can you say, “Boring!”

Excellent. Please continue.

Fried Lizard:

Speaking of bad arguments…

1. You don’t care about truth and bigotry.
2. Since you don’t care about truth and bigotry, you’re a bad human being.
________________________________________
:. Since you’re a bad human being, I don’t see why I should pay attention to what you have to say.

Hello?

Charles, the thing that is actually amusing is that these right-wingers were just as “bugfuck nuts” when you were happily in bed with them. You really have alot to answer for, and alot to come to terms with.

LGF watch says hi by the way.

Danny F says:

LGF watch says hi by the way.

Stalker says what?

Is that all you got?
Weak. Sauce.

Taveteh I laughed out loud twice at what you wrote. Well done. But Charles can you help me with who that really is?  The solar flares are interfering with my clairvoyance.

Charles Johnson, saying that you soil Time magazine while getting overly excited is the most inappropriate form of product placement.

Your political icon Josef Stalin, upon whom you clearly model yourself, would never conduct himself in such a manner.

Actually pretty shocked to see Johnson live on tape. He used to blog about his long cycle rides around and along the California coast and the pictures I’ve seen had him looking pretty thin.

His present condition looks almost Michael Moore-ish. What’s up Charles? Give up the Paleo diet. Quit Riding? Too much cortisol? What?

Cortisol?  Likely his t-cell count is down. He looks like Orson Wells in Touch Of Evil. Like the mofo is sweating butter.

charles johnson was one of the inspirations of the norway killer - he even references lgf!

that charles tries to distance himself from his past means nothing, the world biggest mass murderer formed his belief system in part due to the noxious poison charles spread for years before his so-called “conversion.’

this is why i opposed lgf for years and thought your promotion of him was trash.

charles has children’s blood on his hands, and that will never wash off.